Betty Plotnick ([info]bettyp) wrote,
@ 2004-01-23 12:45:00
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romance

Speaking of PaNick, I read this story by Kel and I liked it. I kept expecting it to turn dark and horrible, but really it's sweet and romantic and I liked it.

And then I was thinking about the word "romantic," and the word "romanticized," and fanfic and women, and I was being all vaguely hard-core feminist (can you be vaguely hard-core anything? I bet if it can be done, I'm the one who can do it) about how romantic comedies and romance novels are supposedly girl things, even though every scientific study ever done and all your anecdotal evidence (go ahead, think it through) supports the idea that men fall much harder and much faster into romantic love than women do. But still, right? Romantic stories are things that women write for other women to read, and they put them in a different section of Borders from the Literary Fiction, which may also be romantic, but we don't call it that, and people win awards for it, particularly men, and then they make movies that win Oscars, like the English Patient and Cold Mountain. Which is all well and good.

And then there's us. I always imagine that, somehow, the whole world is one giant Borders, and everyone is trying to figure out what shelf they belong on, and we're all like, Hey, I'm magical realism, not fantasy! and Why don't we send that guy over to the war thrillers where he belongs? and No, I'm about all kinds of relationships, not just romance! And stuff like that. One of my favorite things about popslash is how elastic it's been in incorporating things into the genre -- in almost no conceivable way is Paris/Nick or Justin/Britney slash, being neither same-sex nor non-canonical, but nobody would think of complaining that certain kinds of stories with those pairings as the focus get announced at Shinyandnew. Because popslash is a genre with a particular ethos, not with stringent requirements for content. I could write a 2000k Christina/Trace epic, and I guarantee you people would call it popslash. I like that.

What I'm saying here is that -- surprise! -- slash is a genre of fiction, or in this case fanfiction, and like all genres, there's a core of stuff that's very definable and recognizable, and then it moves out toward the fringes of the genre where things are more iconoclastic. I'm not willing to publish yet on what the ethos of slash is, except that it isn't anything as simple as I once would have said, as evidenced by the fact that PaNick can be popslash, but certain explicitly queer fanfic at, say, the Nifty archive I would personally not call slash.

Where am I going with this? No fucking clue -- should I have mentioned that up front? I've just been thinking lately about all my fandoms over the last seven or so years, and how many times the ethos of the fandom, the center around which we all congregate, is the romanticization of the characters, the way we lavish our affection on them, from the small jumps required to turn basically sweet-natured Blair into Angel!Blair from on high, to the massive amounts of collective fan energy invested in retooling Krycek or Spike into classicaly Byronic romantic heroes. There's a certain way of writing that makes events seem grander and more meaningful then in real life they perhaps are, and at the same time that glorifies the detailed and domestic, one's personal emotions and needs and wants, that *romanticizes* the bare outline of a story, and it's what slash writers do very well. Frequently it involves one degree or another of shading down the things we don't like and shading up the things we do, not unlike the way we actually think about people we love.

Because, you know, come on, Paris Hilton? There's no evidence that she has any compassion, any honor, any desire to benefit anyone but herself, any sense of her own impact, any ability to weigh off consequences and take responsibility. There's no evidence at all that she knows or cares anything about the real world, about anyone but herself and the people who directly contribute to her own happiness. All of these popstars, these are people who drop tens of thousands of dollars on a single piece of jewelry, who waste enough money to pay a family's power bill for a year on making sure they have the hotel suite with the crystal chandelier and not the glass one, who stash six hundred pairs of shoes and then feel good about themselves for giving three hundred away in a world where other people work three jobs and hope the cops show up when you dial 911. I'm supposed to admire these children? I'm supposed to *love* them, to cherish the way that Lance lets his secret boyfriend carry his moppy little dogs from gig to gig for him, and then votes for the same party that wants to amend the US Constitution to make sure we don't ever get around to thinking about maybe giving gay people their civil rights?

But I do, some of the time, love them. While I'm writing about them, I do, because I write them in a certain way, a little more thoughtful than they probably are, a little more genuine, a little more confused. I write them trying harder to get through life than I think they really are. Even when I'm feeling the Gritty Realism (tm), I romanticize their problems, their struggles, to give them greater weight and depth than just some fucking rich kid who's all woe is me, my life is so hard. I do that because I don't want to read about their bloated, competitive, soulless, consumptive, defensive little lives. I want, in one sense or another, a romance, a story about one or another kind of love.

And I'm not saying that's totally untrue, or that they're incapable of love or whatever. I'm saying that I write the way I write because it produces a story that I like and not becasue I think it mimics reality exactly, and I would go out on a limb to say that most writers would say the same thing.

So I like Kel's Paris Hilton story, and not in spite of the fact that I think it's a romanticized portrayal of Paris Hilton. That's why I like it. All of fanfic, the whole reason I'm here to begin with, is that I think source material is great, but I'm not content to leave it alone. It's not a make-over, it's a make-better, darling. We're just tzjujing reality a little bit, romanticizing it if you like, and I think it's sad that some people think that's ipso facto a failing of the genre. It's the entire reason I love it.



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[info]aproposofnothin
2004-01-23 10:58 am UTC (link)
the way that Lance lets his secret boyfriend carry his moppy little dogs from gig to gig for him, and then votes for the same party that wants to amend the US Constitution to make sure we don't ever get around to thinking about maybe giving gay people their civil rights?

I really really really really really really hope Lance is strongly considering changing his vote, if not his party affiliation, this year. Jesus.

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[info]kassrachel
2004-01-23 11:00 am UTC (link)
Marry me?

(Oh, wait, nevermind, already married and probably not your type anyway. ;-)

But this rocks. Thank you. You put your finger on a few things I had thought/felt in some inchoate way but had never articulated half this well. *g*

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[info]silveryscrape
2004-01-23 11:22 am UTC (link)

God bless and keep you all the rest of your days.

Or, you know, whoever.

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[info]mintwitch
2004-01-23 11:42 am UTC (link)
Lovely post. I hope you don't mind if I rec it out on my journal :-D

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[info]overloved
2004-01-23 11:50 am UTC (link)
2000k Christina/Trace epic

um...?

~

This is why you should post more. You always bring me so much joy when you do.

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[info]selectivamnesia
2004-01-23 12:10 pm UTC (link)
Wait, Lance votes Republican? I was for some reason certain he was a Dem (and I remember being really adamant that he not be R, around the time of the 2000 election, but could find no actual confirmation as to which way he voted, though a lot of people were going by the "Southern Mississippi Baptist = Republican" model and I was going by the "gay popstar = Democrat" model. Um. as I was saying.). Has he said this recently? Bleh.

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[info]mydarkstar
2004-01-23 01:56 pm UTC (link)
The entire sixth paragraph is a masterpiece of truth. Damn.

<--works two jobs, yet can't afford to move out of Mom's house

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[info]sugarhigh9104
2004-01-23 02:01 pm UTC (link)
OhholyshitYES. Wow, I think you hit the nail on the head there.

As a person in the midst of writing a Nick/Paris epic, I have to say that that's exactly what I'm doing with her. I seem to be making her this gentle, loving, somewhat tragic, misunderstood, hilarious girl, and I can't possibly know if she's anything like that. And I think your assessment of why I do it is dead on. I think Nick and Paris are adorable and pretty and blond and it makes me happy looking at pictures of them. But I don't think they're terribly intelligent, and to write a story about two pretty, kind of dim people being pretty and kind of dim would be very boring. So I bring other things, romanticized elements, in.

In my research for the fic (watching The Simple Life, reading articles about her, interviews with her, etc.) I have in fact seen evidence only of her being the complete opposite of the way I tend to write her. And it's not that I make shit up then, when I write. I (like to think I) don't make up a completely different character from the one I see. (I do see a lot of tenderness in the pictures of her and Nick, and in the way she talks about him. And you're right, I shade that up.) I just take everything I've seen and twist it to make it what I want. There's a reason she poses like a porn star (heh) for the cameras and it's not because she's a fame whore, it's this. There's a sweetness to her stupidity and an angst underneath it, see here's what I think is really going on in her head, blahblahblah. Until reading your post, I don't think I fully realized I was doing that.

I have, however, realized that about the way I write Britney. And this paragraph explains, perfectly, why:

But I do, some of the time, love them. While I'm writing about them, I do, because I write them in a certain way, a little more thoughtful than they probably are, a little more genuine, a little more confused. I write them trying harder to get through life than I think they really are. Even when I'm feeling the Gritty Realism (tm), I romanticize their problems, their struggles, to give them greater weight and depth than just some fucking rich kid who's all woe is me, my life is so hard. I do that because I don't want to read about their bloated, competitive, soulless, consumptive, defensive little lives. I want, in one sense or another, a romance, a story about one or another kind of love.

I've often looked back at Britney-centric stuff I've written and wondered why I wrote it the way I did. I always write her as this deep, conflicted person who experiences joy and pain on a pretty grand scale. Then when I think about what I've seen from her, I realize I have almost nothing to back it up. (Though I certainly feel I have more than I do from Paris.) And the only reason I can think of is that that's what I want her to be. I'm interested in her, and she's frankly vapid a good deal of the time, and I just can't leave it at that because no one can just be like that and there's gottobemorethere...

So I write her the way I want her. I can't understand how someone can lead the life she leads and not be all kinds of complicated. Which, really, she might very well be. But you're right in that I don't have a ton of evidence to back that up. And yet I still write it. I trip over myself with happiness when she gives me a little tidbit like "I need therapy" in an interview because it supports my "romantic" vision. (This isn't to say that I always write angst!Brit, but even happy stuff needs some layers of depth, and ya don't always find that with the Britster.)


And I realize I've now babbled in your journal forever and you have no idea who I am, but I loved what you had to say and wanted to comment. =)


Ant

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[info]chicksrus
2004-01-23 02:53 pm UTC (link)
Yes, disassociation sometimes is key to popslash enjoyment.

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[info]bard_mercutio
2004-01-23 05:50 pm UTC (link)
I think you got it exactly right to start with and then missed the point -- or at least, my point in the end. Yes, it's definitely cool that so many different varieties of fic are all still popslash.

But, to me, the reality of the lives of pop stars doesn't depress or upset me. To me, they're still characters. Admittedly, I may be just be somewhat detached from reality. However, it's kinda why I write them at all. I still don't believe in RPF. Not to the huge squicky ends it can be taken by the obsessed. But to me, the popslash fandom is all about taking a set of characters and writing them. The freedom is that their thoughts and motivations are largely unknown. As characters, and not as people, it's a delight to contemplate wealth beyond dreams of avarice.

That may just be hopelessly naive of me, I know. But I'm too old to eat my heart out over the impossible anymore.

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[info]copracat
2004-01-23 07:31 pm UTC (link)
I considered posting the text of this newspaper article:
[Error: Irreparable invalid markup ('<a [...] culture</a>') in entry. Owner must fix manually. Raw contents below.]

I considered posting the text of this newspaper article: <a href="http://theage.com.au/articles/2004/01/19/1074360693855.html?from=storyrhs" Pop Goes the Culture</a> in my journal but thought it didn't tell us anything we don't already know, but you might find it interesting. She talks about moral lessons from reality tv.

I've been fascinated by shows like Newlyweds and The Osbornes - they are some strange child of "reality tv" (wannabe celebrities) and entertainment journalism.

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[info]copracat
2004-01-23 07:40 pm UTC (link)
Wouldn't that have been more helpful with the actual link?

http://theage.com.au/articles/2004/01/19/1074360693855.html?from=storyrhs

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[info]autotomy
2004-01-23 09:04 pm UTC (link)
wow. awesome popslash commentary, thank you. that whole having-a-love-for-romanticized-versions-of-celebrities-in-slash? i truly believe thats the element that makes me read popslash, lotrips, etc.

while i may dig the justin that i read about in rollingstone and see on mtv, i heart the justin that quotes bob dylan lyrics. or the justin that's a bike courier. see, i'm not particularly devoted to a particular romanticized version, i guess it's just that hint of heart and edginess in each portrayal that makes me go all squee.

but honestly, i think that i'm not only falling for the romanticized version, but also for the writer. cause i know that this isn't really the justin, but the writer's view of justin. so i guess when i read popslash, i feel like i'm not getting this justin that i really want but in actuality, a piece of the writer that created something i could love so much.

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[info]bettyp
2004-02-04 01:46 pm UTC (link)
I do think the voice of individual writers comes through much more strongly in popslash, partially because we're not filtering through certain speech or narrative conventions of other writers, and partially because we are, like you say, tailoring the characters' personalities and circumstances to match our interests and hang-ups rather than the themes of the source material. I think that's why popslash writers are so overall great; I think really great writers are attracted to the way they have more freedom in the fandom, more opportunity to be creative.

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[info]withdiamonds
2004-01-23 10:02 pm UTC (link)
Frequently it involves one degree or another of shading down the things we don't like and shading up the things we do, not unlike the way we actually think about people we love.

See, I do that with my husband. I like to think of him as a certain kind of person, one who shares my values more than he really perhaps does. So I shade up the similarities and shade down the differences. When I'm faced with irrefutable evidence that he's not the person I keep hoping he is, I ignore or dismiss it. We've learned over the years to never discuss politics, because I get so angry. And that's because I want him to live up the the version I have of him in my head, and if he can't, I don't want to know. So you're right, and it's certainly what I do with the denizens of the popworld. I'm sure they're deeper, more complicated, nicer, smarter, people in our heads and stories than they are in real life. And that's fine, I want to keep the romanticized version of them at the fore. I want them to be better than they probably are.

And you're right, too, that's what so great about popslash, we can make them any way we want, and pretend to believe in our illusions.

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[info]bettyp
2004-02-04 01:43 pm UTC (link)
I'm with you totally. I appreciate both the bandboys that I get to know in some ways through source material *and* the ones I write about, but I don't fool myself into thinking they're more alike than they are. And I like mine better.

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[info]tsamm
2004-01-25 09:40 pm UTC (link)
When you talk about romanticization maybe that means the act of fictionalizing or placing in narrative? RPS makes it all more complicated; it's a much different thing to write angel!Blair than kitten!JC in some ways, only I'm not sure exactly why. Maybe because to me it feels like there is a "real" JC out there, but not a real Blair. And we'll never know the real JC, but we must always write in relation to him; the best stories are the ones that allow us to recognize him in them, that capture him and reflect him and then too, yeah, possibly also do different things with him; the make-better you were talking about.

I usually don't like characterizations in which I can't find an adequate amount of what I see as "the real" JC in them. It's not exactly a percentage thing, but know what I mean? I find it hard to know the precise moment at which a character enhancement/make-better strays too far to work for me, but there's a weird line for all of us, and people obviously draw it in different places. And it depends on the writer, too. I've loved some JC characterizations that I *know* can't be like him, but they work bec. they're done so well.

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[info]bettyp
2004-02-04 01:41 pm UTC (link)
I think that's interesting, because I would be more likely to say -- not that there's a "real" Blair vs a "real" JC, but that fictional characters come with tighter built-in boundaries. Real people are weird and complicated and they do crazy things that don't seem to match up with what they've done in the past, but a fictional character can't do that without losing cohesion and becoming unrecognizable.

And I'm very much with you on the last part. I've always said that some of my favorite popslash stories, particularly AUs, have characterization that don't resemble anything anywhere, but I like them anyway. I don't know if that has anything to do with the nature of popslash itself, or if the relatively open ground of the fandom attracts a more iconoclastic and inventive group of writers who are willing to stray further afield.

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[info]annaalamode
2004-01-26 07:16 am UTC (link)
I have nothing to say to this except a) marry me and b) come to college with me and write all my papers. I make great Ramen and if that isn't the height of student luxury I don't know what is.

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[info]bettyp
2004-02-04 01:31 pm UTC (link)
I would say that a full-time student can't keep me in the style to which I have become accustomed, but actually, probably you could. I'm not accustomed to much.

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Shading up & shading down
[info]stormyfish
2004-02-03 04:41 pm UTC (link)
This is the part that made me say, "Yes!"

"Frequently it involves one degree or another of shading down the things we don't like and shading up the things we do, not unlike the way we actually think about people we love."

We notice something that intrigues us about the character and glorify it; we show sort of a fish-eye view or a funhouse mirror version of the subjects. Different writers have different affinities, and the result is a spectacular and varied collection of portraits.

Thanks.

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Re: Shading up & shading down
[info]bettyp
2004-02-04 12:50 pm UTC (link)
Definitely. That's why the prolific writers can be so much fun, because you get into "so and so's Chris is usually like this" and "that reminds me of the way so and so writes Lance," and all that.

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[info]wemblee
2004-02-04 11:39 am UTC (link)
1) Nicely said.

2) ::crawls out of the spider hole:: Lance? ::shaves beard:: Secret boyfriend? ::nicks self with razor:: RePUBlican?!

3) I now know how "tzjujing" is spelled. I think that your typing it counts as a public service in some way.

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[info]bettyp
2004-02-04 12:18 pm UTC (link)
1) Thanks!

2) Don't ask.

3) Straight from EW, and would they lie to us?

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